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 Post subject: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Queen Orgasma
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Discuss serial killers, ask questions, all that jazz.


There have been several serial killers in my immediate area. Here's a few:


Joe Ball, dubbed "The Alligator Man", killed at least 20 women and fed their remains to his alligators in the 1930s. He ended up killing himself and a film was made about him.

Genene Jones was a nurse that killed as many as 46 kids under her care during the 1970s and early 80s.

Angel Maturino Reséndiz, aka The Railroad Killer, was an itinerant Mexican serial killer responsible for as many as thirty murders across the United States and Mexico during the 1990s.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:21 am 
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I have a few cool serial killer stories in my family.

First off, just because it's the least exciting, my uncle is the police officer who drove the Green River Killer to his trial. He got to have a short talk with him, which apparently was memorable enough that he claims he'll never forget it, but he never really agreed to tell me what the guy said. To be fair, I was 12 when I asked.

Next, a good friend of my family, who we've known pretty much forever, was possibly the only person to have a confirmed sighting of the Zodiac Killer. He too, was a cop, and he was working on the scene of Paul Stine's murder right after it had been called in. They had all been told to look out for a black suspect by the guys who had compiled all the evidence so far, so he basically ignored a white guy with a crew cut who walked right past them as they worked searching the nearby park. Later on, The Zodiac would make mention of that exact night in later letters, where he specifically said, "Your man in the park walked right past me that night, you know?". The crew cut guy also matched most sketches they had of Zodiac later in the case when they called him back in to ask him about it.

The bigger story, though, and my favorite, goes a bit further back.

Back when my dad was my age, he was apparently invited to some party, which got rough, and booze was being passed around and all that. He called his dad, my grandfather, and asked if he could take him home, something he was hesitant to do, since it was like midnight, and my grandfather was a NOTORIOUS hardass. Still, he was his father, and he cared enough to get out of bed and come for him.

On the way home, there were a couple of assholes driving in front of them, really reckless like. They weren't just being dumb, they were driving CRAZY, like they wanted to kill someone, almost. After about ten minutes of that, grandfather got pissed off, drove them off to the side of the road, and got out for a confrontation.

It was to his surprise that three people got out of the car, looking particularly nasty, two guys, and a woman. One of the guys was carrying a baseball bat who the others called Tex, and started taunting grandpa incessantly about sticking his nose where it didn't belong or something. After a few minutes of standing off and swearing at each other, the guy made a menacing motion with the bat, as if to indicate that the time for talking was over, and he better be leaving if he didn't want violence.

So what does he do, get back in the car and drive away?

Fuck that, grandpa took just one step towards the guy, as full of malice as he could get, and just said, "If you're going to hit me with that thing, you better fucking kill me with it."

This confused the baseball bat guy and his friends, so he continued, "You better fucking kill me with it, or I'll take it from you, and ram it right up your ass."

After that, they looked pretty weirded out, and just drove off without responding.


The next morning, grandpa was watching the news, first thing in the morning, while my dad ate breakfast. The very first thing on was a shocking story, about how Sharon Tate had been murdered in her home the night before. They were all pretty interested in the story, until pictures of the guys who did it were on the screen, purported accomplices of Charles Manson. The name they had was Charles Watson, and it was most definitely the guy with the bat who he had pulled over the night before, and his friends.

So yea, my grandpa just turned pale as a ghost and started shaking right there. He was a badass, but I think realizing you had just had a near death experience with the goddamn Manson Family is enough to freak anyone out.


And that's about it, between my family and Serial Killers. A few too many stories for most people's liking, but they're fun to tell, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:26 am 
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Shit, Ches. Your granddad is bad as fuck.

Also, my dad went to school with a serial killer. Sat next to him in Biology.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:27 am 
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That IS cool, ches!

I have three cousins who are responsible for this:

Cahaba Lakes Murders

but that was over a drug deal gone bad, not because they were serial killers.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:47 am 
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Ches you've got the blood of badass in you, don't squander it.

I think there's some family story related to a serial killer but it must not have been a close call or anything because I can't remember shit.

I remember doing a project on serial killers in like the 8th grade. We had to choose some project related to tragedy or law or some shit, I don't know. My mom got pissed because it was kind of gruesome. One of the girls in my group's parents wouldn't let her finish the project.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:59 am 
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Good ol' Jeffrey Dahmer was from our neck of the woods, me living in Milwaukee and all. I guess our glorious Den Mother knew family members of one of the victims.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:43 am 
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We don't get much in the way of serial killers here, in fact, none come to mind at the moment.

Spoiler:
inb4 serial sheep killers

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:45 am 
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you guys don't usually kill where you rape, do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:08 am 
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We tend not to.

You get more rapes out of something that's alive.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:30 am 
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Minnie Dean: Scottish immigrant baby farmer who killed at least three children by laudanum poisoning and suffocation in the 1890s. The only woman to receive the death penalty in New Zealand.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:44 am 
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Location: Shoebox
In the Colorado Rockies
Where the snow is deep and cold
And a man afoot can starve to death
Unless he’s brave and bold
Oh Alfred Packer
You’ll surely go to hell
While all the others starved to death
You dined a bit too well
---from The Ballad of Alfred Packer

Alfred Packer, AKA The Colorado Cannibal;
I think the little bit above explains it pretty well. The whole thing happened in the 1880's. Man goes out with five prospectors with thoughts of gold in their heads (actually 20 originally, but 15 of them decided not to travel all the way). Expedition gets lost, and a few months later Packer alone emerges with several wallets in his possession. Things get weird when strips of human meat are found near where Packer was believed to be staying (the area he had taken shelter, that is) and people start thinking maybe he lured the prospectors there from the get-go.

Ted Bundy: While obviously not exclusively happening here, experts believe several women who were killed within the course of a few months (back in 1975) were murdered by him, as they and the manner in which they were killed fit the profile.

There are more (hey, it's a big state and honestly there have been quite a few psychopaths living here throughout the ages), but these two probably stand out the most.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Wisconsin is notorious for its serial killers. Though I don't know any experiences in my family, I suppose the best example is Jeffrey Dahmer, who raped, tortured, dismembered, cannibalized his victims, and, in some cases, raped their dead corpses as well. He chose men from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds, eschewing the normal profile of a serial killer.

Here's the best story, borrowed from Wikipedia:

In the early morning hours of May 27, 1991, 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone (by coincidence, the younger brother of the boy whom Dahmer had molested) was discovered on the street, wandering naked, heavily under the influence of drugs and bleeding from his rectum. Two young women from the neighborhood found the dazed boy and called 911. Dahmer chased his victim down and tried to take him away, but the women stopped him. Dahmer told John Balcerzak and Joseph Gabrish, police officers dispatched to the scene, that Sinthasomphone was his 19-year-old boyfriend, and that they had an argument while drinking. Against the protests of the two women who had called 911, the officers turned him over to Dahmer. They later reported smelling a strange scent while inside Dahmer's apartment, but did not investigate it. The smell was the body of Tony Hughes, Dahmer's previous victim, decomposing in the bedroom. The officers did not make any attempt to verify Sinthasomphone's age and failed to run a background check that would have revealed Dahmer was a convicted child molester still under probation. Later that night, Dahmer killed and dismembered Sinthasomphone, keeping his skull as a souvenir.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:57 am 
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>"Oh, hey officers, that naked and bleeding boy is my boyfriend, can you help me take him home?"

>Apartment smells like something died in there

>seems legit

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:51 am 
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The most noteworthy serial killers in Austria were the Lainz Angels of death, a group of nurses who killed their patients, first by giving them lethal injections, but later by pinching their noses and pouring water into their mouths until they drowned in their beds. It is rumoured that they killed about 200 patients that way.

Several of my friends were born in that hospital, and I was there a couple of times myself because it's the closest to my home. Thankfully, it was after they were arrested.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:49 pm 
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I found a great article that answers a lot of questions about the Columbine Killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

Quote:
They weren't goths or loners.

The two teenagers who killed 13 people and themselves at suburban Denver's Columbine High School 10 years ago next week weren't in the "Trenchcoat Mafia," disaffected videogamers who wore cowboy dusters. The killings ignited a national debate over bullying, but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied — in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and "fags." Their rampage put schools on alert for "enemies lists" made by troubled students, but the enemies on their list had graduated from Columbine a year earlier. Contrary to early reports, Harris and Klebold weren't on antidepressant medication and didn't target jocks, blacks or Christians, police now say, citing the killers' journals and witness accounts. That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.

A decade after Harris and Klebold made Columbine a synonym for rage, new information — including several books that analyze the tragedy through diaries, e-mails, appointment books, videotape, police affidavits and interviews with witnesses, friends and survivors — indicate that much of what the public has been told about the shootings is wrong.

In fact, the pair's suicidal attack was planned as a grand — if badly implemented — terrorist bombing that quickly devolved into a 49-minute shooting rampage when the bombs Harris built fizzled.

"He was so bad at wiring those bombs, apparently they weren't even close to working," says Dave Cullen, author of Columbine, a new account of the attack.

So whom did they hope to kill?

Everyone — including friends.

What's left, after peeling away a decade of myths, is perhaps more comforting than the "good kids harassed into retaliation" narrative — or perhaps not.

It's a portrait of Harris and Klebold as a sort of In Cold Blood criminal duo — a deeply disturbed, suicidal pair who over more than a year psyched each other up for an Oklahoma City-style terrorist bombing, an apolitical, over-the-top revenge fantasy against years of snubs, slights and cruelties, real and imagined.

Along the way, they saved money from after-school jobs, took Advanced Placement classes, assembled a small arsenal and fooled everyone — friends, parents, teachers, psychologists, cops and judges.

"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."Deceiving the adults

Harris, who conceived the attacks, was more than just troubled. He was, psychologists now say, a cold-blooded, predatory psychopath — a smart, charming liar with "a preposterously grand superiority complex, a revulsion for authority and an excruciating need for control," Cullen writes.

Harris, a senior, read voraciously and got good grades when he tried, pleasing his teachers with dazzling prose — then writing in his journal about killing thousands.

"I referred to him — and I'm dating myself — as the Eddie Haskel of Columbine High School," says Principal Frank DeAngelis, referring to the deceptively polite teen on the 1950s and '60s sitcom Leave it to Beaver. "He was the type of kid who, when he was in front of adults, he'd tell you what you wanted to hear."

When he wasn't, he mixed napalm in the kitchen .

According to Cullen, one of Harris' last journal entries read: "I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't … say, 'Well that's your fault,' because it isn't, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. No no no don't let the weird-looking Eric KID come along."

As he walked into the school the morning of April 20, Harris' T-shirt read: Natural Selection.

Klebold, on the other hand, was anxious and lovelorn, summing up his life at one point in his journal as "the most miserable existence in the history of time," Langman notes.

Harris drew swastikas in his journal; Klebold drew hearts.

As laid out in their writings, the contrast between the two was stark.

Harris seemed to feel superior to everyone — he once wrote, "I feel like God and I wish I was, having everyone being OFFICIALLY lower than me" — while Klebold was suicidally depressed and getting angrier all the time. "Me is a god, a god of sadness," he wrote in September 1997, around his 16th birthday.

Klebold also was paranoid. "I have always been hated, by everyone and everything," he wrote.

On the day of the attacks, his T-shirt read: Wrath.

Shooter profiles emerge

Columbine wasn't the first K-12 school shooting. But at the time it was by far the worst, and the first to play out largely on live television.

The U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Education Department soon began studying school shooters. In 2002, researchers presented their first findings: School shooters, they said, followed no set profile, but most were depressed and felt persecuted.

Princeton sociologist Katherine Newman, co-author of the 2004 book Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings, says young people such as Harris and Klebold are not loners — they're just not accepted by the kids who count. "Getting attention by becoming notorious is better than being a failure."

The Secret Service found that school shooters usually tell other kids about their plans.

"Other students often even egg them on," says Newman, who led a congressionally mandated study on school shootings. "Then they end up with this escalating commitment. It's not a sudden snapping."

Langman, whose book profiles 10 shooters, including Harris and Klebold, found that nine suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts, a "potentially dangerous" combination, he says. "It is hard to prevent murder when killers do not care if they live or die. It is like trying to stop a suicide bomber."

At the time, Columbine became a kind of giant national Rorschach test. Observers saw its genesis in just about everything: lax parenting, lax gun laws, progressive schooling, repressive school culture, violent video games, antidepressant drugs and rock 'n' roll, for starters.

Many of the Columbine myths emerged before the shooting stopped, as rumors, misunderstandings and wishful thinking swirled in an echo chamber among witnesses, survivors, officials and the news media.

Police contributed to the mess by talking to reporters before they knew facts — a hastily called news conference by the Jefferson County sheriff that afternoon produced the first headline: "Twenty-five dead in Colorado."

A few inaccuracies took hours to clear up, but others took weeks or months — sometimes years — as authorities reluctantly set the record straight.

Former Rocky Mountain News reporter Jeff Kass, author of a new book, Columbine: A True Crime Story, says police played a game of "Open Records charades."

In one case, county officials took five years just to acknowledge that they had met in secret after the attacks to discuss a 1998 affidavit for a search warrant on Harris' home — it was the result of a complaint against him by the mother of a former friend. Harris had threatened her son on his website and bragged that he had been building bombs.

Police already had found a small bomb matching Harris' description near his home — but investigators never presented the affidavit to a judge.

They also apparently didn't know that Harris and Klebold were on probation after having been arrested in January 1998 for breaking into a van and stealing electronics.

The search finally took place, but only after the shootings.

Meticulous planning

What's now beyond dispute — largely from the killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off.

Looking for answers at home

Since 1999, many people have looked to the boys' parents for answers, but a transcript of their 2003 court-ordered deposition to the victims' parents remains sealed until 2027.

The Klebolds spoke to New York Times columnist David Brooks in 2004 and impressed Brooks as "a well-educated, reflective, highly intelligent couple" who spent plenty of time with their son. They said they had no clues about Dylan's mental state and regretted not seeing that he was suicidal.

Could the parents have prevented the massacre? The FBI special agent in charge of the investigation has gone on record as having "the utmost sympathy" for the Harris and Klebold families.

"They have been vilified without information," retired supervisory special agent Dwayne Fuselier tells Cullen.

Cullen, who has spent most of the past decade poring over the record, comes away with a bit of sympathy.

For one thing, he notes, Harris' parents "knew they had a problem — they thought they were dealing with it. What kind of parent is going to think, 'Well, maybe Eric's a mass murderer.' You just don't go there."

He got a good look at the boys' writings only in the past couple of years. Among the revelations: Eric Harris was financing what could well have been the biggest domestic terrorist attack on U.S. soil on wages from a part-time job at a pizza parlor.

"One of the scary things is that money was one of the limiting factors here," Cullen says.

Had Harris, then 18, put off the attacks for a few years and landed a well-paying job, he says, "he could be much more like Tim McVeigh," mixing fertilizer bombs like those used in Oklahoma City in 1995. As it was, he says, the fact that Harris carried out the attack when he did probably saved hundreds of lives.

"His limited salary probably limited the number of people who died."

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:24 pm 
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rocket wrote:
Good ol' Jeffrey Dahmer was from our neck of the woods, me living in Milwaukee and all. I guess our glorious Den Mother knew family members of one of the victims.


amommynoose wrote:
In the early morning hours of May 27, 1991, 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone (by coincidence, the younger brother of the boy whom Dahmer had molested) was discovered on the street, wandering naked, heavily under the influence of drugs and bleeding from his rectum.


Yeah, it was that dude. I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:03 am 
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My personal favorites are Carl panzram
and Ted Bundy
because their motivations for being killers seem a little difrferent. They were motivated by pure anger, and nothing more. Panzram may have been the ultimate Misanthrope, with some of my favorite quotes, such as "My one wish is that all the world had one neck and I had my hands around it" or something close to that, and when asked why he sat fire to churches, didn't he love Jesus? he responded "I love him so much I want to crucify him all over again"

I find the The Green River Killer, Gary Ridgeway fascinating as well, by virtue of his body count and the surreal nature of his urders, including pyramid shaped stones left in the vaginas of the women he strangled, usually with their own pants.

All of us interested in horror fiction should know about The Phantom Killer, who inspired The Town That Dreaded Sundown, or The Axeman of New Orleans


I love serial killer trivia

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:09 am 
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CaptainZombieYeti wrote:
I love serial killer trivia


I remember reading that Bundy would dig up the bodies, have sex with them, put makeup on them, talk to them.

fucking weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Serial Killer Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:22 am 
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he did engage in necrophilia,but I don't recall the other stuff. he hated them, I don't think he cared to pretty them up or talk to them

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